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	<title>Comments on: Would you like some guilt to go with that wine?</title>
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		<title>By: Charlotte Mutesha</title>
		<link>http://mizchartreuse.com/2009/06/02/would-you-like-some-guilt-to-go-with-that-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte Mutesha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mizchartreuse.com/?p=408#comment-173</guid>
		<description>Tina:

It&#039;s quite fascinating to look back over history and research how Christianity and the Church and religion all came to be. In a theology course I took at Dominican called &quot;Mystery of God,&quot; we examined different approaches to and perspectives of God and it was amazing. I may have a book for you to peruse if you&#039;re so inclined.

I know what you mean, being a first generation child. I went to church every Sunday while living at home. How have your parents reacted to your absence? Are you able to discuss your reservations and confusion with them?

The book is in my purse and I&#039;m starting it this week. We&#039;ll talk soon. Thanks for the feedback!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tina:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite fascinating to look back over history and research how Christianity and the Church and religion all came to be. In a theology course I took at Dominican called &#8220;Mystery of God,&#8221; we examined different approaches to and perspectives of God and it was amazing. I may have a book for you to peruse if you&#8217;re so inclined.</p>
<p>I know what you mean, being a first generation child. I went to church every Sunday while living at home. How have your parents reacted to your absence? Are you able to discuss your reservations and confusion with them?</p>
<p>The book is in my purse and I&#8217;m starting it this week. We&#8217;ll talk soon. Thanks for the feedback!</p>
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		<title>By: Charlotte Mutesha</title>
		<link>http://mizchartreuse.com/2009/06/02/would-you-like-some-guilt-to-go-with-that-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlotte Mutesha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:36:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mizchartreuse.com/?p=408#comment-172</guid>
		<description>Shakeel:

Was I the pot calling the kettle brown, too? ;)

I love your in-depth, insightful responses. Your comment complements my post perfectly because you basically elaborated on everything I discussed, adding historical fact and explaining the fundamentals of spirituality.

I honestly agree with all of your points. I failed to expound on my little line: &quot;While I don’t discredit the value some people find in organized religion...&quot;

And it&#039;s true. While I have no use for traditional Christianity today, I cannot say that it&#039;s an inherently horrible thing (key word being &#039;inherently&#039;).

My mother is a devout Christian, and her faith has carried her through life and keeps her strong every day. I admire her tenacity; she&#039;s a wonderful person. 

When I was a senior in high school and in my first year of college, I attended a youth group regularly (even commuting from NIU back home to the suburbs every weekend for church activities). Those were truly some of the best years of my life--deep friendships and lots of spiritual growth. My parents were PROUD!

I now consider myself a spiritual person; clearly not religious. It&#039;s the doctrine with which I have a problem; the judgment and fear-mongering. Ultimately at the roots of religion, it&#039;s all just meant to improve the quality of life. We humans do have to self-examine and strive to live the best life, doing good and becoming self-fulfilled. You made an excellent point with this:

&quot;Theology and doctrine aside, the moral implication of Christianity’s invitation and one’s rigorous self-discipline into higher-level consciousness (which is what I believe is truly the heart of the religious experience and even has an evolutionary advantage as well) is what’s at stake here.&quot;

I couldn&#039;t agree more. So, I push the theology and doctrine aside (because there are SO MANY OUT THERE; most claiming to be &quot;THE way&quot;), and focus on my spiritual growth as an individual on a daily basis. 

We will discuss this more in person next time we get together.

Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shakeel:</p>
<p>Was I the pot calling the kettle brown, too? <img src='http://mizchartreuse.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I love your in-depth, insightful responses. Your comment complements my post perfectly because you basically elaborated on everything I discussed, adding historical fact and explaining the fundamentals of spirituality.</p>
<p>I honestly agree with all of your points. I failed to expound on my little line: &#8220;While I don’t discredit the value some people find in organized religion&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s true. While I have no use for traditional Christianity today, I cannot say that it&#8217;s an inherently horrible thing (key word being &#8216;inherently&#8217;).</p>
<p>My mother is a devout Christian, and her faith has carried her through life and keeps her strong every day. I admire her tenacity; she&#8217;s a wonderful person. </p>
<p>When I was a senior in high school and in my first year of college, I attended a youth group regularly (even commuting from NIU back home to the suburbs every weekend for church activities). Those were truly some of the best years of my life&#8211;deep friendships and lots of spiritual growth. My parents were PROUD!</p>
<p>I now consider myself a spiritual person; clearly not religious. It&#8217;s the doctrine with which I have a problem; the judgment and fear-mongering. Ultimately at the roots of religion, it&#8217;s all just meant to improve the quality of life. We humans do have to self-examine and strive to live the best life, doing good and becoming self-fulfilled. You made an excellent point with this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Theology and doctrine aside, the moral implication of Christianity’s invitation and one’s rigorous self-discipline into higher-level consciousness (which is what I believe is truly the heart of the religious experience and even has an evolutionary advantage as well) is what’s at stake here.&#8221;</p>
<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more. So, I push the theology and doctrine aside (because there are SO MANY OUT THERE; most claiming to be &#8220;THE way&#8221;), and focus on my spiritual growth as an individual on a daily basis. </p>
<p>We will discuss this more in person next time we get together.</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: tina carlino</title>
		<link>http://mizchartreuse.com/2009/06/02/would-you-like-some-guilt-to-go-with-that-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>tina carlino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mizchartreuse.com/?p=408#comment-169</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s the thing about the Da Vinci Code: (and please excuse my lack of proper grammar because i&#039;m going to rant and im too fast a thinker to worry about apostrophes.) Everything that you have learned as a catholic or christian growing up makes about 85% sense. Now when reading the book, everything that Dan Brown puts together to prove some of his points, seem so valid that it almost feels like you&#039;ve been taught wrong and his book is the way. I finished the about a week ago, and still i am thinking about the connections in the book. The catholic church is known for its corruption and cover-ups and this book is the ultimate demise of the church; whether it be right or wrong. Another thing, to you mizchartreuse, there is a LOT of symbolism in this book connecting men and women and having a general balance of life. I&#039;m not going to get into it, but i know that you enjoy the ying-yang thing, and there are many examples in this book that make you look around your everyday life and pose questions. 

since i was little i have attended church every sunday. it was just what i was to do as a first generation italian in america...i havent been to church since i started reading this book, because i am literally confused.

anyway, please read. and then let&#039;s discuss. i&#039;m going to start angels and demons; more on that when im done :) love you boo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the thing about the Da Vinci Code: (and please excuse my lack of proper grammar because i&#8217;m going to rant and im too fast a thinker to worry about apostrophes.) Everything that you have learned as a catholic or christian growing up makes about 85% sense. Now when reading the book, everything that Dan Brown puts together to prove some of his points, seem so valid that it almost feels like you&#8217;ve been taught wrong and his book is the way. I finished the about a week ago, and still i am thinking about the connections in the book. The catholic church is known for its corruption and cover-ups and this book is the ultimate demise of the church; whether it be right or wrong. Another thing, to you mizchartreuse, there is a LOT of symbolism in this book connecting men and women and having a general balance of life. I&#8217;m not going to get into it, but i know that you enjoy the ying-yang thing, and there are many examples in this book that make you look around your everyday life and pose questions. </p>
<p>since i was little i have attended church every sunday. it was just what i was to do as a first generation italian in america&#8230;i havent been to church since i started reading this book, because i am literally confused.</p>
<p>anyway, please read. and then let&#8217;s discuss. i&#8217;m going to start angels and demons; more on that when im done <img src='http://mizchartreuse.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  love you boo</p>
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		<title>By: Shak</title>
		<link>http://mizchartreuse.com/2009/06/02/would-you-like-some-guilt-to-go-with-that-wine/comment-page-1/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Shak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 16:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mizchartreuse.com/?p=408#comment-168</guid>
		<description>There a literally millions of people who can sympathize with you, Charlotte. And I&#039;m one of those people. I guess you could say that you are &quot;preaching to the choir&quot;, in a sense. (Yes, pun intended, because I&#039;m that awesome)

A couple things...

Concerning the books: If you haven&#039;t read Brave New World, you must. Aldous Huxley was one of the most brilliant minds of the last century. That book was written during the 1930s, right after WWI and when the Industrial Revolution changed the world. It focuses on conformity and alienation, and even though the characters in the book laud their world as utopian, the reader can intuit that its anything but. It was banned not only because of its satirical stance on American anomie and decadence, but it also dealt with eugenics, social engineering, carefree entertainment, sexual promiscuity, pervasive drug-use with no side-effects, and hatred of family values. Those aren&#039;t very Christian values ;) I was actually kinda taken aback when I read it. I&#039;m surprised it got passed the censors in the first place! Interestingly, he wrote sort of a sequel to Brave New World called Island, where it deals with a culture of people who actually live in a utopia. It sort of the bright-side to Brave New World&#039;s dark-side.

The Da Vinci Code created a buzz because Dan Brown&#039;s shameless promotion (and subtle use of words) in the beginning of this book. He claims on the first page that some of the historical references are FACT. Well, not really, dude. Granted, it was a decent book and definitely a page-turner, but it&#039;s riddled with terrible history. I think the book is more blasphemous to history more than anything else. Anyone who&#039;s acquainted with history will notice the difference between fact and fiction. But when you&#039;re writing for a general audience who know about the Gospels but have actually never spent the time to read them or the history around them will start to wonder if the Catholic Church is hiding something. It&#039;s provocative, which is why it was a run-away success. Brown uses just enough historical truth to lure you in so he can trap you with historical fantasies that you may suspect have an element of truth to them (which most of the time, they don&#039;t). Either way, I suggest you read it for yourself.

Concerning organized religion: I&#039;m not personally offended by religion. Although those close to me understand I&#039;ve had fundamental difficulties with it lately, I still maintain religion&#039;s power to transform human consciousness into something beautiful. I think many people tend to look at religion through one lens - the evil side of religion, which we&#039;re all familiar with - where religion is much more complicated than that. Religion can inspire saints as well as rogues; there&#039;s no getting around that. It can give us a Mother Theresa or a David Koresh; a Rumi or an Osama Bin Laden. Historically, it seems like the religious impulse will always gather a following, which will then subsequently turn into an organized institution. I think it serves the human need for community as well as nurturing a human need for transcendence, and when you put the two together, you get organized religion. So I think it&#039;s inevitable, but it&#039;s definitely a mixed bag.

I think the focus on sin in Christianity isn&#039;t bad itself, I just think the focus on guilt is, and there&#039;s a difference. Sin is important to understand - it&#039;s not necessarily an aberration of the Ten Commandments that I&#039;m talking about here, but a realization that you&#039;ve either broken a moral imperative towards yourself or your fellow man, or that you&#039;ve lowered your standard with whatever that may be. But Christianity isn&#039;t about sin and guilt and hellfire; as you can well understand, Christianity I believe is essentially about love and redemption; it&#039;s not escaping the bullshit around you, but embracing that bullshit and coming through to the other side of it feeling redeemed and coming out as a better person than you were before. Theology and doctrine aside, the moral implication of Christianity&#039;s invitation and one&#039;s rigorous self-discipline into higher-level consciousness (which is what I believe is truly the heart of the religious experience and even has an evolutionary advantage as well) is what&#039;s at stake here. The Gospel of Luke gives us the most pragmatic answer to the worth of religion, &quot;By their fruits, you shall know them&quot;. If religion doesn&#039;t address the human condition as well as it&#039;s immediate environment and doesn&#039;t transform the soul into something better than what it once was, then it is irrelevant. But what is important as well is this question of meaning. We all need it, and some people find it and deal with it on their own terms. But meaning is something we all need, and I hope it&#039;s something we can all find.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There a literally millions of people who can sympathize with you, Charlotte. And I&#8217;m one of those people. I guess you could say that you are &#8220;preaching to the choir&#8221;, in a sense. (Yes, pun intended, because I&#8217;m that awesome)</p>
<p>A couple things&#8230;</p>
<p>Concerning the books: If you haven&#8217;t read Brave New World, you must. Aldous Huxley was one of the most brilliant minds of the last century. That book was written during the 1930s, right after WWI and when the Industrial Revolution changed the world. It focuses on conformity and alienation, and even though the characters in the book laud their world as utopian, the reader can intuit that its anything but. It was banned not only because of its satirical stance on American anomie and decadence, but it also dealt with eugenics, social engineering, carefree entertainment, sexual promiscuity, pervasive drug-use with no side-effects, and hatred of family values. Those aren&#8217;t very Christian values <img src='http://mizchartreuse.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  I was actually kinda taken aback when I read it. I&#8217;m surprised it got passed the censors in the first place! Interestingly, he wrote sort of a sequel to Brave New World called Island, where it deals with a culture of people who actually live in a utopia. It sort of the bright-side to Brave New World&#8217;s dark-side.</p>
<p>The Da Vinci Code created a buzz because Dan Brown&#8217;s shameless promotion (and subtle use of words) in the beginning of this book. He claims on the first page that some of the historical references are FACT. Well, not really, dude. Granted, it was a decent book and definitely a page-turner, but it&#8217;s riddled with terrible history. I think the book is more blasphemous to history more than anything else. Anyone who&#8217;s acquainted with history will notice the difference between fact and fiction. But when you&#8217;re writing for a general audience who know about the Gospels but have actually never spent the time to read them or the history around them will start to wonder if the Catholic Church is hiding something. It&#8217;s provocative, which is why it was a run-away success. Brown uses just enough historical truth to lure you in so he can trap you with historical fantasies that you may suspect have an element of truth to them (which most of the time, they don&#8217;t). Either way, I suggest you read it for yourself.</p>
<p>Concerning organized religion: I&#8217;m not personally offended by religion. Although those close to me understand I&#8217;ve had fundamental difficulties with it lately, I still maintain religion&#8217;s power to transform human consciousness into something beautiful. I think many people tend to look at religion through one lens &#8211; the evil side of religion, which we&#8217;re all familiar with &#8211; where religion is much more complicated than that. Religion can inspire saints as well as rogues; there&#8217;s no getting around that. It can give us a Mother Theresa or a David Koresh; a Rumi or an Osama Bin Laden. Historically, it seems like the religious impulse will always gather a following, which will then subsequently turn into an organized institution. I think it serves the human need for community as well as nurturing a human need for transcendence, and when you put the two together, you get organized religion. So I think it&#8217;s inevitable, but it&#8217;s definitely a mixed bag.</p>
<p>I think the focus on sin in Christianity isn&#8217;t bad itself, I just think the focus on guilt is, and there&#8217;s a difference. Sin is important to understand &#8211; it&#8217;s not necessarily an aberration of the Ten Commandments that I&#8217;m talking about here, but a realization that you&#8217;ve either broken a moral imperative towards yourself or your fellow man, or that you&#8217;ve lowered your standard with whatever that may be. But Christianity isn&#8217;t about sin and guilt and hellfire; as you can well understand, Christianity I believe is essentially about love and redemption; it&#8217;s not escaping the bullshit around you, but embracing that bullshit and coming through to the other side of it feeling redeemed and coming out as a better person than you were before. Theology and doctrine aside, the moral implication of Christianity&#8217;s invitation and one&#8217;s rigorous self-discipline into higher-level consciousness (which is what I believe is truly the heart of the religious experience and even has an evolutionary advantage as well) is what&#8217;s at stake here. The Gospel of Luke gives us the most pragmatic answer to the worth of religion, &#8220;By their fruits, you shall know them&#8221;. If religion doesn&#8217;t address the human condition as well as it&#8217;s immediate environment and doesn&#8217;t transform the soul into something better than what it once was, then it is irrelevant. But what is important as well is this question of meaning. We all need it, and some people find it and deal with it on their own terms. But meaning is something we all need, and I hope it&#8217;s something we can all find.</p>
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